POINTS. BACK TO YOU. BRIAN: UNBELIEVABLE. THANKS, PETER. LET’S BRING IN THE FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE MIKE POMPEO WHO DID THE ORIGINAL NEGOTIATION WITH THE TALIBAN.
SO, WOULD YOU HAVE LEFT 300 MEN BEHIND WAS THAT PART OF THE PLAN >> BRIAN, GOOD MORNING. OUR PLAN ALWAYS INCLUDED AN ORDERLY CONDITIONS-BASED WITHDRAWAL THAT WOULD HAVE CERTAINLY INCLUDED MAKING SURE WE GOT THE SEQUENCING RIGHT ON BAGRAM, CIVILIANS VERSUS MILITARY AND ALSO INCLUDED THE CENTRAL THESIS TO MAKE SURE WE GOT EVERY AMERICAN OUT AND ALSO PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN’T LEAVE $80 BILLION OF EQUIPMENT BEHIND AS WELL WE WERE DETERMINED TO GET ALL THE AMERICANS OUT TO MAKE SURE WE GOT OUR EQUIPMENT WE WERE NEVER THREATENED BY OUR OWN EQUIPMENT AGAIN. IT’S A SAD DAY WE’RE NOW PROBABLY 24 HOURS FROM HAVING EVERYONE OUT OF THERE AND WE’LL HAVE A LOT OF AMERICANS THAT ARE STILL STUCK IN AFGHANISTAN. BRIAN: DID THEY TEACH YOU AT WEST POINT, MR. SECRETARY, YOU WERE NUMBER ONE.
DID YOU EVER THINK THAT YOU’D BE IN AMERICA WHEN WE LEAVE PEOPLE BEHIND IN A WAR ZONE? >> NO, THIS IS PRETTY STRAIGHTFORWARD, BRIAN.
THIS IS FRESHMAN YEAR MILITARY 101. MILITARY STAYS, IT DOES ITS WORK , IT GETS THE AMERICANS OUTS AND THEN IT ONLY THEN DOES IT DO THE MISSION THAT PROTECTS ITSELF AND GETS ON ITS WAY. AINSLEY: WELL IF THIS IS TRUE, IF THIS IS THE LAST FLIGHT TAKING OFF WE STILL HAVE 40 MORE HOURS UNTIL THAT DEADLINE EXPIRES.
WHY WOULD HE DO THIS? >> I CAN’T ACCOUNT FOR THAT. I DON’T KNOW IF INDEED IT’LL BE THE FINAL FLIGHT. I’M SURE WE STILL MILITARY ON THE GROUND WE’LL HAVE TO GET OUT AS WELL. I HOPE THERE IS A PLAN FOR AFTER AUGUST 31.
I’VE NOT SEEN ANY EVIDENCE OF THAT BUT I HOPE THERE IS. COUNTRIES TO THE NORTH, CENTRAL ASIAN COUNTRIES, I AM CONFIDENT BE WILLING TO HELP US GET THE AMERICANS OUT OF THERE. I HOPE WE’VE BEEN WORKING THAT I HOPE WE’RE PERMITTING NON- GOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATIONS WHO WANT TO TRANSFER AMERICANS OUT ON THE GROUND TODAY MEANWHILE SEEING STORIES WHO ARE THERE THAT CONTACTED ME TO WHO HAVE SEEN THESE STORIES I HOPE THEY HAVE COORDINATED WITH THESE NATIONS THAT SURROUND AFGHANISTAN IN A WAY THAT EVEN AFTER WE’VE LEFT THERE’S AN OPPORTUNITY FOR THESE AMERICANS TO GET HOME TO THEIR FAMILIES.
STEVE: ABSOLUTELY, MR. POMPEO, I’M SURE YOU WERE WATCHING THE PRESIDENT ON THURSDAY, LATE IN THE DAY WHEN HE WENT INTO THE EAST ROOM AND MADE THE STATEMENT REGARDING THE 13 BRAVE AMERICANS WHO DIED LAST WEEK.
AFTERWARDS, HE WAS ASKED BY OUR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND REMINDED HIM, HEY, MR. PRESIDENT , YOU SAID THE BUCK STOPS WITH YOU. DO YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR WHAT HAS HAPPENED OVER THE LAST TWO WEEKS AND THE PRESIDENT SAID YEAH, I TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I BLAME THE TRUMP ADMINITRATION. WHEN YOU WERE AT HOME WITH THE POMPEO HOUSE, WHAT DID YOU YELL AT THE TELEVISION? >> [LAUGHTER] STEVE, I’M KIND OF PAST THE YELL ING PHASE OF THIS.
WE KNOW FULL WELL THE PLAN THAT OUR ADMINISTRATION HAD, WE EXECUTED IT WITH ENORMOUS SUCCESS FOR AN AWFULLY LONG TIME WE NEGOTIATED WITH THE AFGHAN GOVERNMENT, WE NEGOTIATED AND TALKING TO EVERY AFGHAN WE DELIVERED THE LAST YEAR OF OUR ADMINISTRATION WITH NOT A SINGLE AMERICAN KILLED NOT A SINGLE AMERICAN EVEN ATTACKED BUT A TALIBAN. WE HAD A PLAN AND IT WAS CONDITIONS-BASED. WE DIDN’T GET THE LAST SOLDIERS OUT OF THERE.
WE STILL HAD WORK TO DO AND HAD TO GET THE CONDITIONS RIGHT. PRESIDENT BIDEN CAME IN, MADE THE DECISION TO SEQUENCE THE EVACUATION IN THE WAY THAT HE DID AND YOU CAN SEE THE TRAGEDY THAT ENSUED.
I WATCHED THE VIDEO YESTERDAY FROM DOVER AIR FORCE BASE. I’VE BEEN OUT THERE IT’S A SOLEMN DAY. I’M PRAYING FOR THE FAMILY MEMBERS OF THOSE 13 AND I’M PRAYING FOR THE REMAINING AMERICAN AMERICANS STILL STUCK IN AFGHANISTAN. STEVE: SURE SO YOU WERE SAYING THERE IS A PLAN IN PLACE AND ESSENTIALLY, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION CAME IN AND RIPPED IT UP? >> WELL, WE WERE VERY CLEAR.
PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED EVERYONE OUT. WE WERE WORKING ON THIS FOR FOUR YEARS, STEVE YOU KNOW THIS , YOU ONLY READ THE TWITTER ACCOUNT. WE DESPERATELY WANTED TO GET THESE FOLKS HOME IT WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO.
I THINK THAT’S THE RIGHT DECISION BUT WE ALSO KNEW THAT WE HAD MISSIONS INCLUDING TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE NEVER ATTACKED FROM THIS PLACE AGAIN SO WE WERE WORKING TO ACHIEVE BOTH OF THOSE , SO WE WENT, STEVE, FROM 15,000 TO ABOUT 8,600, WE PAUSED, WE WENT DOWN TO I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE OVER 4,000 OR 4,500, WE TOOK A FINAL STEP TO GET DOWN UNDER 3,000 BUT THAT WAS EACH TIME BASED ON THE CONDITIONS ON THE GROUND.
WE WANTED TO GET EVERYONE OUT, PRESIDENT TRUMP WANTED TO BUT WE WERE NEVER ABLE TO ACHIEVE THE CONDITIONS THAT COULD DELIVER THE IMPORTANT AMERICAN NATIONAL SECURITY INTEREST WHICH INCLUDED MAKING SURE THAT WE HAD OUR PEOPLE HOME, AND OUR EQUIPMENT OUT.
BRIAN: SO IT’S PRETTY CLEAR NOW , IN THE WASHINGTON POST WRITES IT AND THEY HARDLY WAKE UP EVERY DAY THINKING HOW DO I HURT JOE BIDEN. THEY TALKED ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED FRIDAY AFTERNOON AS KABUL FELL. THE SECRETARY OF STATE NEEDED TO GO TO THE HAMPTONS EVEN THOUGH HAD FALLEN WITHOUT A FIGHT AND THAT LOOKED TO BE A PLACE IN WHICH AFGHANISTAN WAS GOING TO THE GOVERNMENT WAS GOING TO MAKE A STAND, AND THEN A GUY BARADOUR WHO YOU GUYS GOT OUT OF PRESIDENT AND SAID WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO, DO YOU WANT US TO TAKE KABUL OR US, BECAUSE THE ADMINISTRATION BEING TORN APART AND WE’RE GOING TO GO IN AND GENERAL MCKENZIE SAID WE WILL HOLD ON TO THE AIRPORT, YOU CAN HAVE THE CITY.
IF THAT WAS PRESENTED TO YOU, OR THE PRESIDENT, WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE SAID? >> WE WOULD HAVE SAID WE’RE GOING TO DO EVERYTHING WE HAVE TO DO.
WE WOULD HAVE SAID WE GOT THIS. YOU STAY OUT OF OUR WAY. WE NEVER BEGGED. WE NEVER APOLOGIZED WE ALWAYS DEMONSTRATED POWER AND WE TOLD THE TALIBAN THAT IF YOU DON’T BEHAVE THE WAY THAT WE WANT YOU TO BEHAVE WE’LL IMPOSE REAL COSTS. LOOK, I’VE SEEN THAT REPORTING TOO, THAT IT DOESN’T MAKE MUCH SENSE TO ME UNLESS THERE WAS A TRULY POLITICAL MISSION, THAT THEY HAD TOLD THESE MILITARY FOLKS, YOU KNOW, YOU’VE GOT TO GET OUT THE TIME IS RUNNING THE CLOCK IS NEAR, DO WHATEVER YOU GOT TO DO, GET THE FORCE DOWN, THAT SOUNDS LIKE WHAT WAS IN THEIR MINDS SO THAT WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN IN PRESIDENT TRUMP’S MIND.
WE WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN FOCUSED ON THAT.
WE BE FOCUSED ON ACHIEVING THE OBJECTIVE GETTING OUR PEOPLE HOME, GETTING AFGHANISTAN TO THE CONDITIONS THAT WERE RIGHT BEFORE WE DID THAT, AND MAKING SURE THAT EVERY AMERICAN HAD A CHANCE TO GET HOME. AINSLEY: THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION IS SAYING WE HAVE SIGNIFICANT LEVERAGE, WE HEARD THAT IN THAT SOUND BITE, THEY EXPECT THE TALIBAN WILL ALLOW SAFE PASSAGE FOR AMERICANS TO GET OUT OF AFGHANISTAN, IF THEY WANT TO, BUT WE INTERVIEWED BRETT ODEM, A FORMER NAVY PILOT AND COMBAT VETERAN AND PETE HEGSETH WHO OBVIOUSLY SERVED OVER IN AFGHANISTAN TOO, HAD A HAND IN GETTING HIS INTERPRETER ‘S BROTHER OUT OF AFGHANISTAN SAFELY, AND THEY DESCRIBE A DIFFERENT PICTURE. LISTEN TO THIS. >> THE FAMILY OF FOUR THAT WERE OUTSIDE THE GATE, WE WERE NETWORKING FURIOUSLY.
EVERY CHANNEL THAT WE KNEW, THERE’S AMERICANS WHO ARE BEING LEFT BEHIND. >> IT’S A TAIL OF TWO AMERICAS. YOU’VE GOT THE ADMINISTRATION, THE STATE DEPARTMENT, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT SAYING WE’RE GETTING ALL-AMERICAN CITIZENS OUT YET WE KNOW THERE ARE HUNDREDS YET WE SEE THIS VIDEO YET WE’VE GOT THEM POUNDING ON THE GATE ON THE VERY LAST DAY AND WE KNOW AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL PEOPLE ARE BEING NOTIFIED AND AT THIS POINT IT IS FEND FOR YOURSELF EVEN A FAMILY FROM TEXAS WITH PASSPORTS WITH KIDS AT THE GATE.
AINSLEY: MR. SECRETARY WHAT DOES THE FUTURE LOOK LIKE FOR THOSE AMERICAN WHOSE WANT TO GET OUT AND THEY ARE TRAPPED THERE?
>> AINSLEY, I THINK IT’S GOING TO BE TOUGH. I’VE HEARD FOLKS TALK ABOUT LEVERAGE AFTER OUR DEPARTURE. IT’S OUR PRESENCE THAT PROVIDED THE LEVERAGE THAT WHEN WE’RE GONE, THAT LEVERAGE IS GRAVELY DIMINISHED. PROBABLY STILL HAVE SOME CAPACITY. I HOPE THEY ARE LEAVING SOME CAPACITY BEHIND THE WAY THAT WE WERE THINKING ABOUT DOING THAT BUT THEIR LEVERAGE TO CONVINCE THE TALIBAN TO DO ANYTHING IS DIMINISHED GREATLY.
OUR LEVERAGE FOR THE TALIBAN WAS ALWAYS REALLY STRAIGHTFORWARD. IF YOU DON’T DO WHAT WE WE’LL WE’LL IMPOSE REAL COSTS WE HAD ESTABLISHED A MODEL AND UNDERSTANDING A SET OF DETERRENCE MECHANISMS THAT MADE CLEAR TO THE TALIBAN YOU WEREN’T GOING TO ATTACK AMERICANS WE EXECUTED THAT. WHEN OUR FORCES ARE GONE WHEN OUR MILITARY’S CAPABILITIES ARE GONE THE ABILITY TO INFLUENCE THE TALIBAN’S DECISIONS IF THEY CHOOSE TO HOLD AMERICANS FOR WHATEVER REASON, TO CONVINCE THIS ADMINISTRATION TO RECOGNIZE THEM, OR WHATEVER IT MAYBE, OUR LEVERAGE WILL BE ALMOST ZERO. STEVE: SURE THE LEVERAGE IS THE BIG STICK.
A FIGURATIVE BIG STICK AND NOW THAT’S GONE.
MR. SECRETARY, ARE YOU DISAPPOINTED WITH THE PENTAGON? BECAUSE WE HAVE HEARD THAT APPARENTLY, ALL THE TOP GENERALS EVERYBODY AT THE PRESENT, COMPLETELY ON BOARD WITH THE JOE BIDEN PLAN. >> WELL STEVE, I’D BE SURPRISED IF THAT’S THE CASE, WHEN THIS GETS UNPACKED I’D BE SURPRISED. I WATCHED THE SENIOR MILITARY LEADERS ON THE GROUND.
THEY WERE ALWAYS DEMANDING WE MADE THIS A CONDITIONS-BASED DEPARTURE. PRESIDENT TRUMP DID THAT AND HONORED THAT COMMITMENT. I’D BE SURPRISED IF THEY CHANGED STEVE: SO DO YOU THINK THAT’S JUST WHITE HOUSE SPIN THEY’RE PUTTING OUT WORD TO FRIENDLY MAINSTREAM MEDIA? >> YEAH, STEVE, I SUSPECT THAT’S THE CASE.
I KNOW A LOT OF THESE COLONELS THE MAJORS AND FOLKS TASKED WITH EXECUTING THIS , SOME OF THE JUNIOR FOLKS, THEY ALL KNEW THAT HAD YOU TO MAKE SURE TO DO THE SEQUENCE RIGHT AND IN AN ORDERLY WAY.
THIS IS WHAT THEY EMPLORED US TO DO IS THE RECOMMENDATION THEY GAVE TO PRESIDENT TRUMP AND EVERY STEP ALONG THE WAY WE HONORED THAT. BRIAN: RIGHT SO A COUPLE THINGS THE TALIBAN BRUTALLY KILLED THE INTERIOR MINISTER AND DRAGGED HIM THROUGH THE STREETS AND THE FORMER ONE NOW AND THEN SHOT HIM DEAD.
THE LGBTQ AFGHANS FEAR THEY WILL BE KILLED BECAUSE OF THEIR PAST TRACK RECORD AND THEIR VIEWS ON GAYS IN THAT COUNTRY. THEY LIKE TO THROW THEM OFF ROOF S AND THEY JUST KILLED A POPULAR SINGER JUST DAYS AFTER THEY SAID NO MORE MUSIC EVIDENTLY HE PLAYED MUSIC SO THAT’S THE LIFE WE’RE LEAVING. WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT LEVERAGE, HE’S SAYING THAT RECOGNITION AND DOLLARS ACCESS TO THE IMF, THE INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND, AND OTHERS.
IS THAT LEVERAGE, SHOULD THAT BE USED, SO ESSENTIALLY SHOULD WE BE PAYING RANSOM TO GET AMERICANS OUT? >> BRIAN, THIS IS CRAZY. THIS IS CRAZINESS ON STILTS. THIS IS BUILT ON AN UNDERSTANDING THAT SOMEHOW, THESE FOLKS ARE GOING TO BEHAVE IN A WAY CONSISTENT WITH OTHER NATIONS THAT WE RECOGNIZE.
THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF THIS AND SO I’VE BEEN SURPRISED TO HEAR THEM TALK ABOUT THE TALIBAN CARING ABOUT INTERNATIONAL RECOGNITION.
I NEVER SAW THAT. THEY CARED ABOUT THE SINGLE THING, CREATING POWER TO THEMSELVES. I HOPE THIS ADMINISTRATION IS NOT PREPARED TO PAY THEM THE SAME WAY THEY PAID THE IRANIANS BEFORE. I HOPE THAT BECAUSE IT DIDN’T WORK. IRAN CONTINUES TO BE THE HOST, THE HEADQUARTERS FOR AL QAEDA.
THE SENIOR AL QAEDA LEADERS IN THE WORLD, TODAY, ARE INSIDE OF IRAN. WE GAVE THEM BILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND PILES OF CASH. THIS IDEA WE’RE GOING TO USE AMERICAN MONEY TO BRIBE THE TALIBAN TO BEHAVE IS SOMETHING THAT’S ABSOLUTELY LUDACRIS, BRIAN.
AINSLEY: AND DURING OUR CONVERSATION WITH YOU OUR PRODUCERS WERE CALLING PENTAGON AND THE PENTAGON HAS SAID THE REUTERS REPORT IS NOT TRUE, AND THERE WILL BE MORE FLIGHTS TODAY. SO THAT’S GREAT NEWS.
NIKKI HALEY WANTS JOE BIDEN TO RESIGN. DO YOU THINK HE WILL DO THAT? >> I’M FOCUSED ON MAKING SURE WE GET THE AMERICANS OUT. NO, I SUSPECT PRESIDENT BIDEN IS NOT GOING TO DO THAT. WHAT I HOPE IS I HOPE THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION LEARNED THAT YOU HAVE TO FOCUS ON SECURITY.
YOU HAVE TO GET THIS RIGHT AND IT IS AMERICAN POWER, NOT CLIMATE CHANGE, DISCUSSIONS, NOT DISCUSSIONS ABOUT DIVERSITY INCLUSION, BUT IT IS AMERICAN POWER AND LEADERSHIP THAT DELIVERS GOOD OUTCOMES TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.
I THINK WE’VE SEEN WHEN YOU DON’T DO THAT, WHEN YOU DEMONSTRATE WEAKNESS, YOU SEE PRECISELY WHAT WE SAW YESTERDAY AT DOVER. IT SADDENED ME GREATLY. I HOPE THAT’S THE LESSON TAKEN AWAY FROM THIS. BRIAN: SECRETARY, THE SENSE WITH THIS ADMINISTRATION REPORTEDLY IS THIS IS A NEWS CYCLE AWAY.
THE AMERICAN PEOPLE AREN’T INTERESTED IN FOREIGN AFFAIRS BY 2022 EVERYONE WILL FORGET THIS.
WHAT DO YOU THINK? >> I CAN’T IMAGINE PEOPLE FORGETTING THIS. WE’RE NOW TWO DECADES, BRIAN, ON FROM 9/11 AND NO AMERICAN HAS FORGOTTEN WHAT HAPPENED THAT DAY THE ANGER, THE OUTRAGE OF SOMEONE ATTACKING AMERICANS IN OUR HOMELAND. I’M CONFIDENT THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE WILL REMEMBER THIS , AND THAT THEY WILL DEMAND EACH OF THEIR LEADERS ACCOUNT FOR WHAT THEY DID AND PRESENT THEM A SOLUTION FOR HOW WE’RE GOING TO MAKE SURE SOMETHING LIKE THIS NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.
STEVE: ALL RIGHT MR. POMPEO THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR JOINING.
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